Sociální pedagogika | Social Education 77

Volume 4, Issue 2, pp. 77–80, November 2016

ISSN 1805-8825

Guests of the Journal

Interview with Carl A. Grant (March 2016)

1

In what way is the multicultural society in the USA different nowadays than it was twenty or

thirty years ago?

Thirty years from the time you sent me the list of interview questions, would be 1985. Changes in the

multicultural society since 1985 would include the “browning” of America. Immigrants from Asia and

Latin America have added a large measure of cultural and phenotypic diversity to the country, and

the boundaries between racial and ethnic group are continually blurring because of intermarriage. In

addition, according CNN (2012) white women are having fewer children. In 2000, nearly 13 percent

of Americans (35.2 million) claimed Hispanic ancestry; the idea that America is a melting pot is no

longer a popular perspective as attention to diversity increases. Economic contexts have been shown

to define social relations; a poor economy in the US has brought on bitter competition between

racial group over jobs. Since 2000, there has been a severe economic recession, unemployment past

10 percent for people of color. The poverty rate for whites, is 9%; Asians Americans, 12%; blacks,

25%; and Latinos 23%. The poverty rate for blacks and Latinos in many urban areas (e. g., Chicago)

remains particularly high. Schooling for black and brown students, often in high-poverty areas,

continues to be far behind, in every important factor (e.g., quality of teaching force, resources,

relevance of curriculum).

The election of President Obama didn’t usher in a post-racial society, as some predicated. And,

although he won his second term by more than five million votes, there is a hateful racial element in

the US that continually contends that he cannot be an American and that a black man should not be

president of the US. In addition, this is not only a US phenomena. Globalization (e.g., economic,

movement of people, world wide communication, the rising up of poor and disenfranchised people,

the awareness and demands of the “other”) is challenging and frightening the status quo and those

who want things to return to the way they were decades ago, when they were often white, or

“strong” men controlled all without respect, mercy and/or regard for others.

For, me the 1980s were the best of times and the worst of times. I was gratified to travel all over the

country to lecture on university campuses and to conduct workshops in schools to help school

districts across the nation who were asking for multicultural education and seeking to understand

multiculturalism. Student demographic changes in the classroom, the browning of America and the

movement of the country into a have and have-not society caused teachers to demand information

(e.g., curriculum, teaching strategies, etc.) that would help them respond to these changes. This

however was bittersweet, because as an educator, I was sad and disappointed that so many

educators did not understand how to teach people who didn’t look like them or who were poorer

than they were and that university-based teacher educators, teachers, and school administrators

blamed the children and their families for most of the problems and were reluctant to see

themselves as part of the problem and/or contributing to the problem. Finally, increasingly I have

graduate students, whose research is taking them to locations outside of the US, not to study groups

as anthropologists once did but to understand the people in a multicultural global context in order to

speak to the world community about the peoples’ humanity.

2 What are the main philosophical (ideological) foundations of contemporary multicultural

education in the USA?

The main philosophical foundation of contemporary multicultural education in the USA, from my

perspective and the perspective of a number of multicultural scholars I know, is the acceptance and

78

Guest of the Journal / Interview (March 2016)

appreciation of the humanity of each and every person/student – throughout the world – regardless

of skin color or wealth or any other human/social characteristic and the desire for them to have a

flourishing life. Implicit within having a flourishing life is the same regards for others throughout the

world. Article 26 – the Right to an education – of the Declaration of Human Rights, and Article 12 of

the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child are ideas that I champion. In addition, the philosophical

foundation includes the acceptance and appreciation of each person’s culture, language, and identity

and the equal acceptance of the humanity of ALL people. That said, much like democracy in many

places, including the US, where democracy is a grand experiment, multicultural education is a work in

progress; it is a notable experiment that I am pleased to be a part of. Arguably, the main

philosophical foundation based upon democratic tents and taken from the first few words of the US

Constitution “We the people…” are slowly, but surely coming to be as I look out at social and political

advances in the country.

3 What do you consider as a core of successful multicultural education?

The core of successful multicultural teaching are equity and equality and the appreciation and

affirmation of the humanity and cultural background and knowledge of each and every person

throughout the world. Included here is an acceptance, appreciation and recognition of their cultural

identity and their group’s historical legacy. Years ago, I used the phrase, “Education that is

multicultural education and social reconstructionist (MCE-SR).” By that, I meant that all of a student’s

education should be multicultural: the staffing in the school, the curriculum and experiences, the

school vision statement and the policies and practices that guide the school; within the context that

society is changing (e.g., becoming more diverse but also more controlled and defined by neoliberal

discourses and practices) therefore MCE-SR must remain fluid. Simply put MCE-SR refers to ALL of

Students’ Education. When I think of a successful multicultural school, one that my granddaughter

and her friends – and other kids though out the world – attends, I am thinking of a school where they

are receiving an “education that is multicultural” that prepares them to have a flourishing life in a

national and global context.

4 Has the role of the multicultural education teacher changed during last years? Can we still

consider the teacher as a key factor of multicultural education?

Indeed, teachers are a key factor of multicultural education and their knowledge of the significance

of their role is growing in a positive way. In both my undergraduate and graduate classes, the

students are much more aware and responsive to racial, economic and cultural diversity than

students ten years ago, and close to a majority of the students warmly accept learning about their

future as a teacher in a multiracial, socioeconomic challenged classroom. The role of the

multicultural education teacher has changed over the past 10-15 years. Society’s awareness of

diversity is an accepted, but resisted reality; therefore, the need to explain the reasons for

multicultural education have shifted somewhat to one of helping schools and teachers to educate

the diverse students body; taking agency against people who try to undercut multiculturalism, not

being alone in the implementation of multicultural education, but instead having colleagues.

5 How much is the application of research findings in the area of multicultural education to

school practice successful?

Before directly answering your question let me say that multicultural education as a concept has

received very little big research money. Some research money has been invested in the study of race;

the study of gender, the study of socioeconomic status, the study of disability, etc.—in other words

single category research. But, research money that seeks to examine the intersection of multiple

categories and social identities (e.g., race, class, gender) in different education spaces and in regard

to different education topics (e.g., education of second language learners, aspiration based on

gender, race and socioeconomic) is small or non-existent. However, it is significant to say that results

from scholarly investigations into the different areas multicultural education have richly influenced

79

Guest of the Journal / Interview (March 2016)

the field, including the way teachers think about teaching and teach. In 2008, Professor Thandeka

Chapman and I developed a 6 volume History of Multicultural Education published by Routledge that

included both empirical studies and scholarly investigations on multicultural education. The Volumes

included research on multicultural education in the following areas: V. 1 Conceptual Frameworks and

Curricular Issues; V. 2 Foundations and Stratifications; V. 3 Instruction and Assessment; V. 4 Policy

and Policy Initiatives; V. 5 Student and Student Learning; V. 6 Teacher and Teacher Education. My

good friend and colleague, Gloria Ladson-Billing’s book, Dreamkeepers, which addresses culturally

relevant pedagogy has been influential in helping educators adopt cultural relevant pedagogy. After

the School Bell Rings, by Professor Christine Sleeter and myself, a three-year ethnography of a middle

school that included four difference ethnic groups, students who were physically challenged,

students whose first language was not English and our tracking of the students through the

completion of their high school received favorable attention by teachers and other educators (See

the follow up study: “Race, Class Gender and Abandon Dreams” Grant & Sleeter, in Teacher College

Record, 1988). In sum, the US, including the teaching force, is ready for a well-funded major study of

multicultural education in order to help educators and policymakers apply results and thereby help

students learn and help teachers learn about teaching students different than they are.

6 What are the effective strategies of coping with socio-cultural diversity in the school

environment?

There is not a strong research base, because of the absence of research data in multicultural

education. That said, some effective pedagogical strategies based upon anecdotal evidence,

classroom observations, and small research studies include: the importance of parent – teacher

engagements; culturally relevant curriculum and culturally response engagements; establishing a

democratic learning community, having teachers of color and administrators ; having teachers who

teach the students first and the curriculum second and having school leadership that strongly

supports multiculturalism, inclusion, and multicultural education.

7 What is a fundamental obstacle to achieving social justice (in a school environment,

education or in the whole society)?

Years ago, (2003) W. E. B. Du Bois wrote The Souls of Black Folks where he argued that the problem

of the 20th Century is the color line. Today racial injustice continues to take many forms (e.g., in

curriculum, staffing, expectation of students) and remains a major challenge. In addition, gender

equality remains elusive; the glass ceiling remains in place and women and girls continue to receive

secondary treatment in many areas; women continue to make less than men for doing the same job.

Women and girls of color face triple oppression, and they continue to be denied equal treatment and

or not granted the same opportunities professionally and commercially and their male and/or white

peers; nor are they appreciated and celebrated in ways equal to white women/girls.). In terms of

socioeconomic class, we are seeing grown inequalities with 1% of Americans owning and controlling

99% of the wealth of the country; the US has become a have and have-not society. 2015 saw

historically high homicide rates with the murder of 21 trans people, the majority of whom were trans

women of color, and none of which were prosecuted as a hate crime. Trans people in the U.S.

experience hate-based violence and homicide at extremely high rates; face legal and social barriers

and resistance to the recognition and respect of their gender identities; and transphobia continues to

pervade our schools. Trans people/students are faced with fear and violence, which are barriers to

living a flourishing life. The disregard of each human having a flourishing life are obstacle to achieving

social justice.

8 What are the main challenges in the area of multicultural education and socio-cultural

diversity in the future?

The main challenges in the area of multicultural education and socio-cultural diversity in the future,

pretty much, remain those that we continue face today: acquiring the capacity (knowledge, skills,

80

Guest of the Journal / Interview (March 2016)

and disposition) to accept and celebrate the humanity of each individual; developing within people a

willingness to actively engage in creating and affirming ideologies and practices based in democratic

principles that push back against a “have and have not world,” eliminate the legacy of the

disregard/disrespect for others because of a “me–first and only” ideology grounded in neoliberal

philosophy and practice. Also, with religion, other than Christianity and the Jewish religion being

questioned or causing concern in everyday society, learning how to include religion (writ large)

within the context of multicultural education is necessary, and within that inclusion making certain

that all religions are appreciated and affirmed. Further, believing that “common ground” can be

found between groups of people where the meaning of multicultural education is shaped by the

context.

9 What is your personal vision of education in/for the 21st century?

For there to be an education system that (1) completely recognizes the humanity, identity, culture

and language of each and every child and educates children and youth to accept and appreciate the

humanity of others; (2) educates students to work cooperatively with one another to solve the many

natural and man-made problems that the world faces; (3) is given the human and material resources

it needs to educate all of its children; (4) operates in the country/nation in ways that fully and

completely value and celebrate all children; and (5) maintains an accountable system, with power

and enforcement mechanisms to make certain that social justice takes place. Space, doesn’t allow to

fully define what I mean, by social justice, a term that too often goes undefined or under-defined,

beside referencing my lecture: “Cultivating Flourishing Lives: A Robust Social Justice Vision of

Education“ that I delivered when I received the American Education Research Award (AERA) and

published in the American Educational Research Journal (AERJ) 2012, 49, 5, 911. In this paper I fully

explore the ways I imagine social justice. However, I will close this interview, with a statement on

social justice that I made at the close of my lecture:

I have argued that to cultivate flourishing lives, a robust social justice education must include five

core practices: (1) self-assessment, (2) critical questioning, (3) the practice of democracy, (4) social

action, and (5) tools of adjudication. In sum, for each and every one of us, cultivating flourishing lives

for our students in keeping with a robust social justice vision of education demands that we are clear

(and have agency) about the meaning of “cultivating” and “flourishing”; that we acknowledge that

our students are shaped by their histories; and that within this context the core values of self-

assessment, critical questioning, practice (of) democracy, social action and (having) a criteria for

adjudication must act in concert to ensure a robust social justice.

THANK YOU!

Carl A. Grant, Hoefs Bascom Professor

University Wisconsin-Madison